The Reading Vent & Rant Thread

[DNSB]

For real fun, I looked at a couple of books that were converted from FB2 to ePub. The conversion program did not convert the images from Base64 encoding to jpg or other image format. This results in books that had massive page and word counts.

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by graycyn

I just read the latest Galbraith (J. K. Rowling) The Ink Black Heart and I was unduly irritated by double columns of tiny print chat room conversations.

The crazy bit was that these conversations were then repeated at a normal font size in a single column. These conversations were frequent and could go on for pages, so it wasn't just a once and done aggravation.

Naturally, once I discovered a normal single column version existed directly following the unreadable version, I paged on past.

But why, oh, why would any SANE ebook publisher do this? Why have it formatted in a way that's going to be positively impossible to read on most ereaders when it was obviously possible to format it in a readable manner? Why have BOTH versions present?

Although what I read was a library epub, I went over to Amazon just to see if any reviews mentioned this. A lot of people were irritated with the Kindle formatting and unreadable chats.

It just boggled my mind!

Oh, geez. I just started reading this. Reached chapter 5 and thought WTF, why are these conversations doubled???

Everything you say I either experienced or thought exactly the same way.

And what annoys me even more- this is one of those very rare occasions I chose not to do my usual recoding of the epub, because 1. I didn't feel like redoing the code for 129 images and the book is massive and would have taken considerable time, 2. It's JK Rowling, who has funds coming out of the wazzoo, so I expected a top notch job and 3. I wanted to get stuck straight into the story which picks up immediately from the previous book.

What a mess, now that I am looking through the code!!!

[rkomar]

The images depict the order in which the individual messages were posted, which you don't get from the single column text afterwards. There is a lot of information in that, and it was lost in the text-only version that followed. Clearly, the publisher couldn't think of a better way of doing it in an ebook. I was a bit irked at first, but realized that they at least made sure that no information was lost. So, although it wasn't ideal, I was mollified that they at least thought things through and gave me a chance to fully understand what was happening in the chats.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Karellen

Oh, geez. I just started reading this. Reached chapter 5 and thought WTF, why are these conversations doubled???

Everything you say I either experienced or thought exactly the same way.

And what annoys me even more- this is one of those very rare occasions I chose not to do my usual recoding of the epub, because 1. I didn't feel like redoing the code for 129 images and the book is massive and would have taken considerable time, 2. It's JK Rowling, who has funds coming out of the wazzoo, so I expected a top notch job and 3. I wanted to get stuck straight into the story which picks up immediately from the previous book.

What a mess, now that I am looking through the code!!!

If's a Comeran Strike book and yes it is annoying. I have two versions of this book. One with the images showing and one with the text showing instead of the images. I've not yet read it as I have not read the previous book.

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If's a Cameron Strike book ...

AKA, Cormoran.

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by rkomar

The images depict the order in which the individual messages were posted, which you don't get from the single column text afterwards. There is a lot of information in that, and it was lost in the text-only version that followed. Clearly, the publisher couldn't think of a better way of doing it in an ebook. I was a bit irked at first, but realized that they at least made sure that no information was lost. So, although it wasn't ideal, I was mollified that they at least thought things through and gave me a chance to fully understand what was happening in the chats.

Yep, I noticed what the author was trying to do - hold parallel conversations in public and private forum channels. And that method can't be done using columns, tables or any other method and still maintain the parallel posts in their correct position relative to each other, and not have text truncated at the end of screen pages.

I ended up posting the conversation threads consecutively and they still make sense. It took me over 8hrs over the last two days to detangle and reformat the epub. There were just so many styles- text messages, newspaper clippings, forum posts and there are just an immense number of each.

I'm up to ch29 now, and its reading quite nicely. Little fixes here and there as I come across the need, but reading the forum conversations consecutively seems ok. ie. it makes sense and I am not left wondering WTF is going on.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If's a Comeran Strike book and yes it is annoying. I have two versions of this book. One with the images showing and one with the text showing instead of the images. I've not yet read it as I have not read the previous book.

How do you end up with two versions? I was left at the whim of what Amazon sent me.
Unless you are implying that you obtained one (or both) versions from less than reputable sources? I know how against that you are with you endlessly pointing the finger at others....
Maybe I'll just leave this piracy talk for the mods to sort out

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Karellen

Yep, I noticed what the author was trying to do - hold parallel conversations in public and private forum channels. And that method can't be done using columns, tables or any other method and still maintain the parallel posts in their correct position relative to each other, and not have text truncated at the end of screen pages.

It never works on any format, paper or ebook. You only read one thing at a time. Even if you have big screen and real multiple chat windows you only read one at a time.

There was an early 20th C book with two columns for the letter and the recipient's thoughts, or the reply letter. The layout was duplicated in a PD ebook. Worked much better sequentially as the two columns on original paper would (in English) be read from left to right. Also with long two columns like that on paper or ebook you'll have to flip back a page to start the second one.

Simply replicating a character's hypothetical screen is even more stupid than two columns on paper of letter and reaction.

Sequential always works better.·

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Karellen

How do you end up with two versions? I was left at the whim of what Amazon sent me.

Most likely that he bought from two sources or edited the ebook. He often edits ebooks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Karellen

How do you end up with two versions? I was left at the whim of what Amazon sent me.
Unless you are implying that you obtained one (or both) versions from less than reputable sources? I know how against that you are with you endlessly pointing the finger at others....
Maybe I'll just leave this piracy talk for the mods to sort out

I have the ePub version. It has the images with the text and it also has the text that is in the images. The CSS is hiding the text. So I was able to create both versions from the source ePub. I should go to the text version and see how it compares to the image version.

[icallaci]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have the ePub version. It has the images with the text and it also has the text that is in the images. The CSS is hiding the text. So I was able to create both versions from the source ePub. I should go to the text version and see how it compares to the image version.

The epub version I tried to read also had images followed by hidden text. The only way you could see the text was by looking at the source code. At first I thought the images and text were two separate conversations, until I compared them and saw they were duplicates. Not only that, the different conversations were formatted inconsistently, sometimes as tables, sometimes as linear paragraphs, sometimes as lists, sometimes as images... It was the biggest mess I ever saw, and I refuse to read any more of her stuff until I hear the publishers have implemented some kind of reasonable and consistent formatting.

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Sequential always works better.·

Yep, I agree

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have the ePub version. It has the images with the text and it also has the text that is in the images. The CSS is hiding the text. So I was able to create both versions from the source ePub. I should go to the text version and see how it compares to the image version.

Yep, so did mine. Images followed by text, and like icallaci, I initially thought they were two seperate conversations then realised they were repeating. My css also tried to hide the text, but I think the Libra 2 ignored it and displayed it anyway and so did the Calibre viewer.

So if somebody has legally purchased the ebook, but finds it difficult to read it due to the poor formatting, will offering my version as a replacement consititue a breach of copyright or forum rules?

Originally Posted by icallaci

The epub version I tried to read also had images followed by hidden text. The only way you could see the text was by looking at the source code. At first I thought the images and text were two separate conversations, until I compared them and saw they were duplicates. Not only that, the different conversations were formatted inconsistently, sometimes as tables, sometimes as linear paragraphs, sometimes as lists, sometimes as images... It was the biggest mess I ever saw, and I refuse to read any more of her stuff until I hear the publishers have implemented some kind of reasonable and consistent formatting.

We must have received the same copy.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Karellen

So if somebody has legally purchased the ebook, but finds it difficult to read it due to the poor formatting, will offering my version as a replacement consititue a breach of copyright or forum rules?

Clue is in the word copyright.

You can only share your CSS and explain how to edit. There is no way to ensure any distributed edited copy only goes to those that bought the ebook, only the copyright holder (or publisher assigned rights) can do that anyway.