What sort of ebook reader do we really want?

[barryem]

I have 3 collections, titled _Novels, _Stories and _Misc. That's it. All novels go in _Novels, except for the one I'm currently reading, which stays on the home screen. _Stories has (duh) short stories and _Misc has everything else. That leaves my home screen with just my collections and my current book. Nice and simple.

On my laptop I have an ebook folder with a folder for every author. I can do a search for a title on the main folder and go right to any book, or just go to an author's folder to find his books. Again, nice and simple.

What makes this work for me on my Kindle is that I don't have a lot of books. My laptop is a storage device. My Kindle is just for reading. It has my current book, a few possible next books (that keeps changing) and a few short stories. That's it. Anything else isn't needed.

Doing it this way I can easily find anything I want. If it's a novel it's in _Novels and there are only a few pages of those. I can browse the entire collection quickly.

I'd really like the idea of having thousands of books on my Kindle. It would be satisfying and kind of neat. But it sure would make life more difficult.

Barry

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Thanks - it's always interesting to read how other people use their devices.

I don't use collections at all; I find it easier to use the "jump to a point in the library" facility of the home screen to get to a particular author, but what works for you is obviously the important thing. I have considerably more books on my device than you do (currently 1874 books on 235 pages of the library), and this method works very well for me. I use a Calibre plugboard to prefix titles with a series name and number to arrange books correctly in series order.

One small point, BTW: collections are not "folders by another name". Collections are tags, not folders. The primary difference being that a book can be a member of multiple collection, while only a single copy of it will be present on the device.

Each to their own ... whatever pleases one is best.

I guess, that if I had a huge number of Author collections, then I might resort to using Search, like you, but until then ....

I only use Calibre as another Library and for converting and sending MOBI files to my Kindles. I don't use the Amazon Cloud for anything other than Amazon purchases. Amazon ebook purchases only come to my devices via the Amazon Cloud, which of course doesn't allow filename editing, etc. Quick & Easy, that's me.

You are correct, no doubt, about collections not being folders in a true sense, but just tags, which is echoed by what you see (via PC) on your Kindle device, but for simplicity's sake it is easier to think of them as folder-like, and ebook entries in them, as shortcuts, like on a PC ... which I guess is another form of tag ... easier for the non-tech savvy to get their head around anyway ... I suspect.

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Just to be sure I can sleep well at night, I store multiple copies of all my ebooks (and other files) on a number of different devices, PC's and external drives, plus Google Drive. With ebooks, that also means non-DRM versions for a rainy day. I prefer to not trust any store, even Amazon, and I have had a handful of issues with them now, all due to faults in their software and mentality, and so the rainy day visits as a bit of drizzle sometimes.

P.S. All the issues in regard to a few ebooks from Amazon, always took a good chunk of time out of my life to resolve, which usually included deleting some things and even re-purchasing sometimes, after getting a credit. They even wanted me to wipe my device(s) one time, but I resisted and so we solved it another, better way. The horror of having to re-import all my ebooks all over again (possibly recreate collections and lose notes), etc was just too much (especially if it didn't resolve the issue). The roadblock as always when trying to fix these issues, is DRM and the number of copies of each ebook, in total (an allowance to spread over devices), that may be specified by the publisher etc.

Your basic Amazon operator, doesn't have much power, and you are usually forced to exhaust the limits of their power, before going up the chain to a more empowered operator. Sometimes you need to go up the chain a number of operators, before things get resolved properly. Before that happens, you've wasted a whole stack of time trying unnecessary things. They never take you word, for having already been a similar troubleshooting route yourself, or the fact that you are quite savvy ... and even often know more than they do. And earlier detail in emails is either not read or just not passed on. They force you to start from scratch each time, despite your pleas.

I could of course, just often use my non-DRM copy instead, but I am a stickler for getting what I paid for. I see those copies as for the rainy day scenario only, and don't ever put them on my Kindles.

Everything has gotten so complex now, what with Family Members (etc), old devices and PC's. When you de-register a device (or it dies) or even delete an item, things don't always work as they should, especially if you are not connected online at the time or have a poor connection. Then there is the updating from MOBI to AZW to AZW3 and now KFX. Things just keep getting trickier.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Each to their own ... whatever pleases one is best.

I guess, that if I had a huge number of Author collections, then I might resort to using Search, like you, but until then ....

I only use Calibre as another Library and for converting and sending MOBI files to my Kindles. I don't use the Amazon Cloud for anything other than Amazon purchases. Amazon ebook purchases only come to my devices via the Amazon Cloud, which of course doesn't allow filename editing, etc. Quick & Easy, that's me.

You are correct, no doubt, about collections not being folders in a true sense, but just tags, which is echoed by what you see (via PC) on your Kindle device, but for simplicity's sake it is easier to think of them as folder-like, and ebook entries in them, as shortcuts, like on a PC ... which I guess is another form of tag ... easier for the non-tech savvy to get their head around anyway ... I suspect.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to be sure I can sleep well at night, I store multiple copies of all my ebooks (and other files) on a number of different devices, PC's and external drives, plus Google Drive. With ebooks, that also means non-DRM versions for a rainy day. I prefer to not trust any store, even Amazon, and I have had a handful of issues with them now, all due to faults in their software and mentality, and so the rainy day visits as a bit of drizzle sometimes.

P.S. All the issues in regard to a few ebooks from Amazon, always took a good chunk of time out of my life to resolve, which usually included deleting some things and even re-purchasing sometimes, after getting a credit. They even wanted me to wipe my device(s) one time, but I resisted and so we solved it another, better way. The horror of having to re-import all my ebooks all over again (possibly recreate collections and lose notes), etc was just too much (especially if it didn't resolve the issue). The roadblock as always when trying to fix these issues, is DRM and the number of copies of each ebook, in total (an allowance to spread over devices), that may be specified by the publisher etc.

Your basic Amazon operator, doesn't have much power, and you are usually forced to exhaust the limits of their power, before going up the chain to a more empowered operator. Sometimes you need to go up the chain a number of operators, before things get resolved properly. Before that happens, you've wasted a whole stack of time trying unnecessary things. They never take you word, for having already been a similar troubleshooting route yourself, or the fact that you are quite savvy ... and even often know more than they do. And earlier detail in emails is either not read or just not passed on. They force you to start from scratch each time, despite your pleas.

I could of course, just often use my non-DRM copy instead, but I am a stickler for getting what I paid for. I see those copies as for the rainy day scenario only, and don't ever put them on my Kindles.

Everything has gotten so complex now, what with Family Members (etc), old devices and PC's. When you de-register a device (or it dies) or even delete an item, things don't always work as they should, especially if you are not connected online at the time or have a poor connection. Then there is the updating from MOBI to AZW to AZW3 and now KFX. Things just keep getting trickier.

I understand your thinking on the time to do a reset. My Fire got an error in its memory. The only way to fix it was to reset it to factory default.
I purposely waited till I knew I would have a large block of free time to fix it.
Turns out the first generation only loads 1000 books on the carousel at a time. Each thousand took about 5 minutes to show and another 15 to either remove from carousel or download. All told took me about 4 hours.
It is not Amazon's fault I have such a "large" collection. And I know one person that has 72,000 at last count.

[Timboli]

Well, one could postulate, if they give you the room, then they do indeed have a responsibility to you.

As far as mine goes, I am guessing the KK isn't even a third full, while the KP is just under half. And as I don't suffer lag with either device, it is not an issue in any way that I can detect, thus far.

My personal view, is that you should be able to load non DRM files on the fly from a USB stick (without a web connection) or DRM files (with a connection). That way size would never really be an issue, as you can have as many USB sticks with ebooks as you like. If the device only reads ebooks on itself, but allows copying to itself from a USB thumbstick, then it can operate within a maximum limitation without really impacting the user. In other words, it doesn't need to store thousands of ebooks and risk lag. As it stands, I can do that with my Tablet and Phone now, so why not my Kindles?

P.S. That's kind of what I do with MP3's in my car. I have the ashtray half full of 8 Gb thumbsticks, full of music. I could do a stick or two with ebooks, so my full library is always handy.

[HarryT]

Because that's not Amazon's business model. Their model is that you store books in the Cloud, not on USB memory sticks.

[Timboli]

Which might be fine if you always have access to the Cloud, but I and many others don't, which is why so many cram their device like they do.

Amazon needs to think outside the cloud, if they want to keep their customers happy.

One Apple is bad enough, and being seen as another one, isn't going to do them any favors with their regulars.

[HarryT]

You can store 2000+ typical novels on a Kindle. In all honesty I think that's sufficient local storage for the overwhelming majority of customers. Do you really think that a significant proportion of Amazon's customers are unhappy about it?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can store 2000+ typical novels on a Kindle. In all honesty I think that's sufficient local storage for the overwhelming majority of customers. Do you really think that a significant proportion of Amazon's customers are unhappy about it?

My guess would be no. Logic dictates that if enough customers said they wanted the extra storage Amazon would make that possible.
I am also guessing that most customers don't care since Kobo got rid of their micro-SD slot.

Though I do have a very simple solution for the other person. If you don't like a product or a company, buy something else that is what you want. See super simple and very easy.

[ottdmk]

Unfortunately, e-ink based book readers are produced by a very small number of companies. In Canada, the only readily available ones are Kobos or Kindles, both of which have had the external SD card option removed.

I'm fortunate in that my library doesn't overload the ~3GB space on my H2O, so I haven't bothered buy a SD card for it as yet (and probably never will.)

[McGonigle]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

As HarryT already said, it's very fast and easy to search for whatever you want on the newer Kindles. But 4000+ books wouldn't probably fit on a Kindle. The Kindles don't have a memory card option.

I was thinking along the same lines and besides, there is the current limitation (to my view at least) of a choice of only a 6" screen.

Kobo's got bigger screens and they seem like nice devices but I've read that their software wasn't quite amongst the best out there. Maybe that's changed. I don't know.

But there's still limited onboard storage as well to contend with.

So either you go to the walled garden and sideload or use the vendors' cloud storage which I'm not to keen on doing, call me a private person, or you stick with the open, non proprietary readers.

I just saw this interesting read, relating to my some of my sentiments regarding ereaders:

https://medium.com/of-digital-mice-a...95f#.prhk44j12

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Personally, I want the following in an ereader.

Here's my list:

1. Low initial price and no monthly fee
2. Adjustable font size
3. Repairable
4. Rarely, if ever, freezes or needs reboot
5. Compatible with EPUB library books
6. Durable
7. Automatic and frequent worldwide low-price delivery of newspapers by WiFi, or, much better, cell phone networks
8. Battery life at least two days even with heavy use

Nice extras:
1. No monthly fee world-wide access to news, weather, and email web sites
2. Music player

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can store 2000+ typical novels on a Kindle. In all honesty I think that's sufficient local storage for the overwhelming majority of customers. Do you really think that a significant proportion of Amazon's customers are unhappy about it?

Let's put it this way.

Things will not stay the same forever and surely Amazon knows that.
A significant number of people don't like Apple, and don't have to deal with them.
Quite a number of people don't like Amazon, but currently feel there is no real alternative ... yet.
Amongst those who put up with Amazon, are Publishers and Authors, not just buyers.
Kobo seem to be making a slow progression, but improving all the time. Their chief impediment for me, is their ebook price. If they can grow a big enough user base, the prices will come down.
Kobo is not the only other player ... and a new better one, could come on the scene any time.
Many people still don't realize the nature and benefit of E-ink.
A color E-ink will really change the game though, despite that.
Many people, especially the elderly, are currently experiencing eye issues and headaches with tablets/ipads ... with extended period use.
That said, tablets at least, do give one the freedom of both SD Card and USB stick.
A lot of Publishers are still playing games with ebooks.

There is still a large number of people who haven't been convinced to get into the ebook scene yet, for many reasons. One of those is the lack of freedom and power currently involved with the existing infrastructure. Another is the lack of fair and sensible pricing.

Despite what some think, a lot of users do in fact, want to have their whole collection on their ereader or a large portion of it, which is always growing ... for a variety of reasons.

So you could say, that it is only a matter of time, and that Amazon's sole mastery of the ebook scene (Apple aside) is a finite number of days.

Unless they think outside the Cloud.
One significant way to do that, is to give people more freedom.
So while they play around with other things like 'Family Member' etc, I think they will eventually need to revisit SD Card/USB stick. That feature might not have mattered to users much in the early days, but I suspect it is becoming more desirable by many now, and will only increase as we buy more ebooks.

Change is always on the horizon.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Let's put it this way.

Things will not stay the same forever and surely Amazon knows that.
A significant number of people don't like Apple, and don't have to deal with them.
Quite a number of people don't like Amazon, but currently feel there is no real alternative ... yet.
Amongst those who put up with Amazon, are Publishers and Authors, not just buyers.
Kobo seem to be making a slow progression, but improving all the time. Their chief impediment for me, is their ebook price. If they can grow a big enough user base, the prices will come down.
Kobo is not the only other player ... and a new better one, could come on the scene any time.
Many people still don't realize the nature and benefit of E-ink.
A color E-ink will really change the game though, despite that.
Many people, especially the elderly, are currently experiencing eye issues and headaches with tablets/ipads ... with extended period use.
That said, tablets at least, do give one the freedom of both SD Card and USB stick.
A lot of Publishers are still playing games with ebooks.

There is still a large number of people who haven't been convinced to get into the ebook scene yet, for many reasons. One of those is the lack of freedom and power currently involved with the existing infrastructure. Another is the lack of fair and sensible pricing.

Despite what some think, a lot of users do in fact, want to have their whole collection on their ereader or a large portion of it, which is always growing ... for a variety of reasons.

So you could say, that it is only a matter of time, and that Amazon's sole mastery of the ebook scene (Apple aside) is a finite number of days.

Unless they think outside the Cloud.
One significant way to do that, is to give people more freedom.
So while they play around with other things like 'Family Member' etc, I think they will eventually need to revisit SD Card/USB stick. That feature might not have mattered to users much in the early days, but I suspect it is becoming more desirable by many now, and will only increase as we buy more ebooks.

Change is always on the horizon.

Let's see I have been hearing this same argument for 5 years now.

Amazon sells over 1 million ereaders a year. Less than 1% are saying Amazon needs to change. 99% of ereader customers just want a device they can read on.
So why should they change and have to raise their prices.

Now I don't know about you but I would rather take the 99%'s money and not worry about the 1%.
Let's say that 99 are willing to give me a $1 for a 1 cent object. 74 of those would not pay more for a better object. 1 is willing to give me $2 for a 2 cent object.
First scenario I make $99 less the dollar in cost. Second scenario, I make $52 less 2 dollars in cost.
I can't see making half the money at twice the cost to please a very few.

Figures made up to keep the math simple.

[barryem]

I'm pretty happy with Amazon's service with respect to books and pretty much everything else. There are things I'd like to see improve but I'm not unhappy with the way things are.

That's also true for the Kindle. It's an excellent device and I have no real complaints about it. But there are improvements I'd love to see.

There's not much chance I'll get the changes I'd like to see and that's okay because I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

I really would like to see some hardware maker make a deal with Amazon and B&N and Kobo and the others to start producing devices that can read all their books. I'm sure not predicting this will happen. I don't think it's very likely but here's hoping.

Once other manufacturers start making competing devices, even if they cost more, things could go from very nice, as they are now, to pretty amazing.

Such a device would be independant of stores and since they're not making their money selling books but have to compete with the device itself it should keep getting better and better and better.

Again this isn't a prediction, just a hope. I wish it would happen. I wish.

Barry

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Amazon sells over 1 million ereaders a year.

And over a billion cell phones a year are sold.

Most people in the world, who have cell phones, still do not have smart phones. This seems to me an opportunity for much lower priced eInk readers to be sold in vastly higher numbers. For whatever reasons, the manufacturers and retailers aren't looking at it this way; the big year to year price declines we saw between 2007 and 2012 have stopped and even reversed themselves