Replacing an old PRS-T1

[Quoth]

€360 for a Lenovo laptop with no OS a few months ago.

Linux Desktop (there is choice) has been good enough for 10 to 15 years, if the applications you need are there. OTOH you can't tinker much with Win10/11 compared to NT4/2000/XP/Vista/Win7. The Home versions of Windows are all a bit crippled.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'd like to move to Linux. I admire Linux and free software principles. I use Firefox and LibreOffice.

But the problem is that as desktop Linux has made enormous improvements, so has Windows. Any computer I buy is going to have Windows installed on it (and the ones that don't, like Tuxedo or Slimbook cost more) and I know that Windows will do everything I want to do with little to no tinkering. Not so with Linux.

Framework Laptop DIY Edition. Some assembly required, but hey it is cheaper. While Windows has made some nice improvments they've also added a lot of infuriating things like spam for their subscriptions and programs.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Quoth

€360 for a Lenovo laptop with no OS a few months ago.

I have an old HP laptop like that. I use it to run Fedora Linux. I wouldn't use it as my daily driver though.

Linux Desktop (there is choice) has been good enough for 10 to 15 years...

I don't know about that. I remember using Ubuntu at the end of GNOME2 and the introduction of Unity. It was fun. But comparable to Windows? No way.

Device compatibility was a huge problem. So much so, every Linux article would make some joke about connecting a printer.

if the applications you need are there.

Aye, there's the rub. Just relating to this message board: Good luck running K4PC or the Nook app (MacOS has the same issues).

And don't tell me about WINE.

OTOH you can't tinker much with Win10/11 compared to NT4/2000/XP/Vista/Win7. The Home versions of Windows are all a bit crippled.

Yeah, but you don't need to tinker with them either. On Windows 10, I can run anything from video games from the '90's to Photoshop.

Again, I like and admire Linux. I don't mean to dump on those who use it. I'm just trying to explain why I couldn't move to it as a daily driver.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'd like to move to Linux. I admire Linux and free software principles. I use Firefox and LibreOffice.

But the problem is that as desktop Linux has made enormous improvements, so has Windows. Any computer I buy is going to have Windows installed on it (and the ones that don't, like Tuxedo or Slimbook cost more) and I know that Windows will do everything I want to do with little to no tinkering. Not so with Linux.

Linux is extremely easy to install and runs well on older equipment. My main desktop computer is a Dell Optiplex 3020m (Micro) computer (7"x7"x1-3/4" So it's small and can fit anywhere.). 16 GBs of memory, 512 GB PNY SSD, built-in WiFi card. (It can also dual-boot to Windows 10, but rarely used).

A newer Optiplex Micro model can be bought on eBay or Shop Goodwill — Woot has a refurbished 3050m for $180. (8 GB, with 256 GB SSD or 16GB for $210). Just shrink the Windows partition and install Linux Mint "along side" Windows and then update the installation. The whole process should take about 30 minutes with reasonably fast Internet. Linux can do a lot with 150GB of disk space. And bigger SSD upgrades are cheap.

https://computers.woot.com/offers/de...nd_cat_pc_2_71

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I have an old HP laptop like that. I use it to run Fedora Linux. I wouldn't use it as my daily driver though.

No knock on Fedora, but that's a cutting edge Linux. Something like Linux Mint is designed to use stable releases, and it would be better for a casual Linux user.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I don't know about that. I remember using Ubuntu at the end of GNOME2 and the introduction of Unity. It was fun. But comparable to Windows? No way.

That's twelve years ago. That's when Windows 8 was introduced. (Most people ignored it and kept using Windows 7.)

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Device compatibility was a huge problem. So much so, every Linux article would make some joke about connecting a printer.

I just use printers that I know work well with Linux. Ditto for video cards and WiFi cards. (If I buy a laptop with a Broadcom WiFi I pay $5 for the Intel version.) Intel is well supported in Linux, both WiFi and video because the drivers don't have to be reverse engineered, the code is open. These are about the only device issues I know of in Linux.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Aye, there's the rub. Just relating to this message board: Good luck running K4PC or the Nook app (MacOS has the same issues).

And don't tell me about WINE.

I don't like Wine either. As for K4PC, I don't need it. I do, however, need to run the Nook App (which is one reason why I keep a Windows partition).

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yeah, but you don't need to tinker with them either. On Windows 10, I can run anything from video games from the '90's to Photoshop.

I don't run video games, but I tell people that, if video games are important, you'll probably want to stick with Windows.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Again, I like and admire Linux. I don't mean to dump on those who use it. I'm just trying to explain why I couldn't move to it as a daily driver.

I understand that. I do think you're judging Linux from the Fedora "cutting edge" prospective or by a Ubuntu version from 12 years ago. A lot has changed in that time. I've been using Linux almost exclusively for about 17 or 18 years.

[ottischwenk]

I also have Linux (OpenSuSe) installed - on old PCs that are not suitable for Windows 11 in my summer residence, where I do nothing except browse the Internet, email and do some word processing.
But always have a Windows 11 tablet + BT keyboard + BT mouse for serious work with me.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I don't run video games, but I tell people that, if video games are important, you'll probably want to stick with Windows.

Or have a Nintendo Switch, Sony PS or MS Xbox. Or all of those. Steam does work on Linux.
Unity was stupid. The Windows 8 of Linux.
Linux Mint, Mate desktop and suitable Themes. But there is choice.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by rcentros

That's twelve years ago. That's when Windows 8 was introduced. (Most people ignored it and kept using Windows 7.)

Sure. But to be fair I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Linux Desktop... has been good enough for 10 to 15 years

Anyway

I do think you're judging Linux from the Fedora "cutting edge" prospective...

Maybe. But my main issue is, as mentioned, unavailability of software.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Or have a Nintendo Switch, Sony PS or MS Xbox. Or all of those. Steam does work on Linux.
Unity was stupid. The Windows 8 of Linux.
Linux Mint, Mate desktop and suitable Themes. But there is choice.

I understand that games can be played on Linux PCs (or alternative devices) and that Steam works with Linux for a number of their games. But gamers seem to want to run newest and fastest and Linux (at best) requires work-arounds. Just a quick look at Steam's statistics (for 2022). A little over 10,000 games, and Linux is certified to run a little less than 2,400 of them. And, I'm guessing, many of the ones it does run require some kind of virtual machine on the Steam servers.

Part of the reason I suggest that gamers stick with Windows is that I don't want to have to support them when the game doesn't run right on Linux. I would have no clue where to start. I use Intel GPUs and relatively low power machines that wouldn't come close to running modern PC games. Not something I've ever wanted to use on a computer.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Maybe. But my main issue is, as mentioned, unavailability of software.

I understand. That's mainly why my kids and wife run Windows. Fortunately I don't have those requirements (except (now) for downloading my Nook books, but not very often).