Backup and Restore

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by tspear

Fires are just one problem. A friend lost pretty much everything when his house was flooded by a pipe bursting on the top floor while they were on vacation. The "fire proof" safe was in the basement (as suggested) was not designed to be submerged with water as the basement filled with water.

People have let out (or someone else has) on SM they are on holiday etc. Thieves break-in and steal the big upstairs copper tank (hot water) for scrap copper value. They don't turn off the water and everything is destroyed.
They might take other stuff, but scrap metal is easier to sell than a 2nd hand TV etc.
No one takes any notice of a van and workers going out the front door in broad daylight.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

People have let out (or someone else has) on SM they are on holiday etc. Thieves break-in and steal the big upstairs copper tank (hot water) for scrap copper value. They don't turn off the water and everything is destroyed.
They might take other stuff, but scrap metal is easier to sell than a 2nd hand TV etc.
No one takes any notice of a van and workers going out the front door in broad daylight.

Good thing we don't have a big copper tank. We have the type of water tank that heats the water as you use it.

[theducks]

on the
It is amazing how many different names there are for domestic making hot water (and storage).

US Water Heater (ours tend to be Glass lined steel with about 7-12Y life. Tho as Jon mentioned, there are demand type, and those that used the house heating boiler with a heat exchange insert)

Britain (only?) Cylinder
My Russian neighbor called it a "boiler" (Note: you really do not want it any way near Boiling. About 250 degrees F at 40 PSI )

Others?

[Sirtel]

It's called a boiler here too.

I live in an apartment and so have pre-heated water coming directly from pipes, no water tank whatsoever.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

It's called a boiler here too.

I live in an apartment and so have pre-heated water coming directly from pipes, no water tank whatsoever.

It doesn't heat the water, just stores it. The stove in the kitchen heats it, or when that's not running there is an external Willis heater (about 4KW and instant for hands, or leave on longer for a shower). I know someone that fitted two Willis heaters in parallel for instant showers.

Copper so the flowing water doesn't corrode it. It might last 100 years. Ours is over 40 years old.

Though a dual "immersion" heater (sink/bath) fitted in the tank for when main heating (stove, oil, gas etc) is of is more common. The Willis is the best electrical hot water heater, inexpensive and easy to retrofit to any "hot tank" or boiler.
https://www.elemex.ie/external-immersion-heater/

It was invented in Northern Ireland.

There are people that have "boiler tanks" too. Less common in the past.

[Quoth]

The actual boiler (fireplace, stove, oil, gas etc) doesn't use fresh water. Some are pressurised. It uses a coil in the "hot tank" to heat the tap water without mixing.

[chaley]

This is really

Where I am (Nottinghamshire England) there are four hot water types that I know of:

• Gas "combi boilers" that produce hot water at need. No tank. Whole-house non-gas tankless heaters are extremely rare.
• "Power showers", an electric heater for water in a shower, are very common. Some houses don't have any central hot water, instead using these wherever hot water is required, such as the kitchen sink.
• Water mains pressure, where the tank has a secondary pressure control air tank. The secondary tank prevents the water tank from exploding from over pressure. It is a mystery to me why English tanks require this extra tank so they don't explode while French and US tanks don't (I've lived in all three countries).
• Gravity feed, where the tank is in the attic, open to the air.

It is worth noting that some houses here have cold water cisterns in the attic, filled by the water main and emptied by gravity. Reason: the water main can't supply enough water at pressure to be usable. These cisterns must be emptied and cleaned occasionally to avoid mold and critters taking up residence. There are frequent stories about finding floating rodents in the cisterns.

The hot water tanks are heated by one or both:

• Indirect heating, where the water in a tank is heated by a boiler (oil or gas), a heat pump, some solar system, or perhaps an alternate fuel burner such as wood or peat.
• Electric immersion heater(s). In my experience an immersion heater is 3kW (13 amps at 240v). In my flat, one tank has two of them and another tank has one of them.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The actual boiler (fireplace, stove, oil, gas etc) doesn't use fresh water. Some are pressurised. It uses a coil in the "hot tank" to heat the tap water without mixing.

The gas water heater in my home definitely uses tap water. Cold water enters from the top and is directed to the bottom of the tank where it is heated with the hot water rising to the top exit. Drain the sediment every few months and replace the anode as needed.

We looked at a tankless water heater when we last replaced our hot water heater but our basement needs some renovation before we have the space to install one so went with the old fashioned storage tank.

[tspear]

Originally Posted by theducks

Before you answer broadly like this, you really should read the FAQ and forum posts
GOOGLE DRIVE destroys CALIBE's link-index method because of how the do versioning.

Interesting on the Google Drive. I switched away from Google Drive back in 2012 or 2013; I forget which year, and I was not using Calibre on my Google Drive back then. So I never ran into the issue.

Tim

[tspear]

Fun heater discussion. Kind of amazing the number of terms available to describe a simple function of heating water...

In the US (at least the east coast). If you burn a fuel (gas, oil, propane, wood, coal... whatever) you have a furnace or a boiler. If the output is heated air, it is a furnace, if the output is heated water or steam it is a boiler.

A hot water tank, can be heat pump powered, electric, gas, wood, coal....
A hot water storage tank, has a heat exchanger which is normally connected to a closed loop system which is attached to a boiler.
Tankless hot water, often actually has a small tank, usually just a couple gallons.

I am sure there are more variations. Those are the ones I know off hand.

Tim

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by theducks

on the
It is amazing how many different names there are for domestic making hot water (and storage).

US Water Heater (ours tend to be Glass lined steel with about 7-12Y life. Tho as Jon mentioned, there are demand type, and those that used the house heating boiler with a heat exchange insert)

Britain (only?) Cylinder
My Russian neighbor called it a "boiler" (Note: you really do not want it any way near Boiling. About 250 degrees F at 40 PSI )

Others?

In the US it's a water tank. The problem is that many people don't pay attention to the end of life date and use it past the date and eventually it breaks and you get a nice flood.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In the US it's a water tank. The problem is that many people don't pay attention to the end of life date and use it past the date and eventually it breaks and you get a nice flood.

What kind of flood is 'nice'?

At close to $1000 (12Y, Calif, "low NOX") without installation, we run them till they drip .

(most fails just start out dripping. Our building codes require drip pans with a drain connection AND be 18" above the floor if in a Garage)
Maintenance, can prolong the life. Almost anyone can attach a garden hose and use a screwdriver (child proof rules removed the knobs years ago) and drain sediment. Changing the Anode rod is a bit (can be a lot of effort for so simple of an item) heavy duty (unscrew a pipe plug, remove the assembly, screw in the new one). Frequency of these tasks depends on your water makeup

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by theducks

What kind of flood is 'nice'?

At close to $1000 (12Y, Calif, "low NOX") without installation, we run them till they drip .

(most fails just start out dripping. Our building codes require drip pans with a drain connection AND be 18" above the floor if in a Garage)
Maintenance, can prolong the life. Almost anyone can attach a garden hose and use a screwdriver (child proof rules removed the knobs years ago) and drain sediment. Changing the Anode rod is a bit (can be a lot of effort for so simple of an item) heavy duty (unscrew a pipe plug, remove the assembly, screw in the new one). Frequency of these tasks depends on your water makeup

It's a lot easier and a lot better (IMHO) to buy a tankless water heater. Once it's installed, you don't have to worry about leaking. Plus it saves you a lot of gas usage as it doesn't have to keep the water heated and it doesn't have to heat the the cold water when you use hot water. And a tankless water heater lasts about twice as long.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's a lot easier and a lot better (IMHO) to buy a tankless water heater. Once it's installed, you don't have to worry about leaking. Plus it saves you a lot of gas usage as it doesn't have to keep the water heated and it doesn't have to heat the the cold water when you use hot water. And a tankless water heater lasts about twice as long.

Really? Maybe you should watch some Youtubes. (Na vi en)
Then why are these that cost 3x the tank type only warranted 3Y?
BTW a 5KW+ Electric for a household in PG&E country ($0.60 KWh) is a no go.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tspear

Tankless hot water, often actually has a small tank, usually just a couple gallons.

The small tank is likely to get rid of the cold water sandwich.