geographic restrictions at Fictionwise - Page 9

GeoffC · 06-05-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Hmm, your creativity is bigger than mine!

one tries, despite one's limits ....

pdurrant · 06-05-2009, 05:46 AM

Not on paper books, no. But there is a full 15% VAT on ebooks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

no VAT (yet) on books in UK...

pdurrant · 06-05-2009, 05:49 AM

I'm hopeful that it will be come less and less of a problem as time goes on. The reason it's there now is because of restrictive terms in the contracts between publishers and authors.

I suspect publishers are now much more insistent on getting world-wide ebook rights, even if non-exclusive ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, that whole geographic restriction should be flushed down the toilet... So much for a world economy...

GeoffC · 06-05-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Not on paper books, no. But there is a full 15% VAT on ebooks.

Ah - I hadn't appreciated that .... thanks ...

Argel · 06-05-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It might also be argued that anyone in the EU doing this is avoiding VAT and might be prosecuted for that.

Of course, that would apply to anyone from Europe buying any ebook from the US via a supplier who doesn't charge VAT. The question of whether the ebook has geographical restrictions is not really relevant to the VAT issue.

pdurrant · 06-05-2009, 07:23 AM

Oddly, no.

There's a possible exception to VAT on imported goods -- "Imports of Negligible Value" -- governments can choose to ignore imported goods with a value not exceeding 22 ECU.

In the UK, anything less that £18 is given this exception, but only for physical shipment. There's no lower limit for immaterial goods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argel

Of course, that would apply to anyone from Europe buying any ebook from the US via a supplier who doesn't charge VAT. The question of whether the ebook has geographical restrictions is not really relevant to the VAT issue.

HansTWN · 06-05-2009, 08:07 AM

it not just books. The same for movie and music downloads. A song on itunes US is 99 cents in Germany 99 Euro cents. A lot of things are not even available outside the US/Canada. Electronic goods in general, all cheaper in the US. For physical goods there are still some stores that specialize in selling abroad, but those you don't buy that often. For our books in the end, a reliable virtual credit card from a US bank seems to be the only solid solution. However, we must find a reputable company. Entropay is European, I am not sure if will work at all stores.

Argel · 06-05-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

In the UK, anything less that £18 is given this exception, but only for physical shipment. There's no lower limit for immaterial goods.

A bit of googling reveals that the situation is, as always with VAT, very complex. I calim absolutely no expertise but there's an interesting discussion here relating to Google adwords, where the supplier appears to be outside the UK.

The bit that struck me was the answer to a specific question addressed to Revenue and Customs:

"If I am not VAT registered, but Google are no longer charging me VAT and I need to self-assess the VAT due, will there be any VAT due to be paid if I am not VAT registered in the UK?"

To which the answer from the Revenue was, apparently:

"You will only be liable to pay UK VAT once you are registered for VAT."

The other fascinating thing is that for fiction, the place of supply is wherever the supplier is based but for non-fiction, the place of supply is where the customer is based, because it is classed as a service delivered to the customer.

Anyway, I may be totally misinterpreting (not unknown) but I'm assuming at present that I am not liable for VAT on downloads from outside the EC where the supplier does not charge me VAT at the time of purchase.

GeoffC · 06-05-2009, 08:30 AM

VAT is complicated, as you state...

As a buyer, VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods.

As a seller, you do not have to charge VAT until you are registered. - I don't know what the threshold is these days, but 15 years ago it was £32k.

Argel · 06-05-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

As a buyer, VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods.

As a seller, you do not have to charge VAT until you are registered. - I don't know what the threshold is these days, but 15 years ago it was £32k.

Well actually that's not quite right. VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods where the supplier is liable to charge VAT. To take your example of an unregistered seller of goods, I don't have to pay VAT on what I buy from them.

And in fact, if VAT is due and the supplier doesn't charge it, it is the supplier who will be expected to pay the VAT out of what they received. I know that to my cost, since I once had to pay VAT on a part-time salary that was contractually defined as freelance fees but had absolutely nothing to do with the main activity for which I was VAT-registered. I had to pay and then go back to my employer and beg them to pay me VAT on my last two years' salary - they were under no obligation to do so.

BTW I think the limit is now just over £60k

HarryT · 06-05-2009, 09:59 AM

I know that the limit is quite high, because I recently "deregistered" for VAT, since the limit had gone way above my earnings from my software business.

GeoffC · 06-05-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argel

Well actually that's not quite right. VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods where the supplier is liable to charge VAT. To take your example of an unregistered seller of goods, I don't have to pay VAT on what I buy from them.

And in fact, if VAT is due and the supplier doesn't charge it, it is the supplier who will be expected to pay the VAT out of what they received. I know that to my cost, since I once had to pay VAT on a part-time salary that was contractually defined as freelance fees but had absolutely nothing to do with the main activity for which I was VAT-registered. I had to pay and then go back to my employer and beg them to pay me VAT on my last two years' salary - they were under no obligation to do so.

BTW I think the limit is now just over £60k

true - my mistake....

DaleDe · 06-05-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Ah - I hadn't appreciated that .... thanks ...

eBooks are considered to be software so far as VAT is concerned.

Dale

Argel · 06-05-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

eBooks are considered to be software so far as VAT is concerned.

Not quite. They are digital material and, as I pointed out above, either counted as a product if they are fiction or a service if they are non-fiction. The difference is that products are deemed to originate from the point of sale for VAT purposes, while services are deemed to be created at the point of delivery.

If I buy a sci-fi book from Fictionwise it originates in the US for VAT purposes. If I buy a biography its origin is deemed to be the PC to which I download it. Go figure.

momghoti · 06-09-2009, 06:45 PM

Thank you all so much--I've been struggling with the geographic restrictions for a while now. I actually have a US credit card but it has a UK billing address, which triggered the restriction(sigh). I will try using the country the card is in, not billed to. Close enough to the truth for me....

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06-05-2009, 08:07 AM	#127
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	it not just books. The same for movie and music downloads. A song on itunes US is 99 cents in Germany 99 Euro cents. A lot of things are not even available outside the US/Canada. Electronic goods in general, all cheaper in the US. For physical goods there are still some stores that specialize in selling abroad, but those you don't buy that often. For our books in the end, a reliable virtual credit card from a US bank seems to be the only solid solution. However, we must find a reputable company. Entropay is European, I am not sure if will work at all stores.

06-05-2009, 08:30 AM	#129
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	VAT is complicated, as you state... As a buyer, VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods. As a seller, you do not have to charge VAT until you are registered. - I don't know what the threshold is these days, but 15 years ago it was £32k.

06-05-2009, 09:59 AM	#131
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I know that the limit is quite high, because I recently "deregistered" for VAT, since the limit had gone way above my earnings from my software business.

06-09-2009, 06:45 PM	#135
momghoti Zealot Posts: 121 Karma: 1000021 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hook, UK Device: Cybook Bookeen	Thank you all so much--I've been struggling with the geographic restrictions for a while now. I actually have a US credit card but it has a UK billing address, which triggered the restriction(sigh). I will try using the country the card is in, not billed to. Close enough to the truth for me....

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